YouTube hasn't changed much since it was first acquired by Google in 2006, but YouTube 2.0 might finally be arriving as according to their blog, "spring cleaning" is coming early for them. Funny how this announcement comes shortly after they revised the terms of the On2 merger. They're opening up for ideas and i hope you'll take the time to vote (requires Google Account login) for HTML5 support with open formats as well as ending the one-channel-per-user paradigm. The blog post seems to be focusing on just fixing what's broken, but i hope to see a lot more from them. I can sense a subtle hinting towards greater changes, so this could very well be an exciting development!
Update: Wow, HTML5 with Free formats immediately jumped to the #1 spot and has maintained twice as many votes as the next-highest item! It currently has 584 votes.
Update: Holy crap! Not only is my submission still in first with over 5100 votes, but others have submitted similar suggestions as well and HTML5 is completely dominating the vote with 9 out of the top 10 ideas! I wonder if this can make it to Slashdot too... my submission.
Update: Google is going to seriously hate me if they weren't already planning on implementing HTML5 with Free and Open formats. I made Slashdot, and my idea now has over 11500 votes!
Update: WE DID IT!!! We've gotten an official response from Google, as pointed out by MrMcQ2u in the comments:
Update: Wow, HTML5 with Free formats immediately jumped to the #1 spot and has maintained twice as many votes as the next-highest item! It currently has 584 votes.
Update: Holy crap! Not only is my submission still in first with over 5100 votes, but others have submitted similar suggestions as well and HTML5 is completely dominating the vote with 9 out of the top 10 ideas! I wonder if this can make it to Slashdot too... my submission.
Update: Google is going to seriously hate me if they weren't already planning on implementing HTML5 with Free and Open formats. I made Slashdot, and my idea now has over 11500 votes!
Update: WE DID IT!!! We've gotten an official response from Google, as pointed out by MrMcQ2u in the comments:
"We've heard a lot of feedback around supporting HTML5 and are working hard to meet your request, so stay tuned. We'll be following up when we have more information. We're answering this idea now because there are so many similar HTML5 ideas and we want to give other ideas a chance to be seen." That response was from mia on the youtube team.. Seems like they have closed that request so that other non html 5 requests have a chance to be seen :D I think this deserves an update to the blog :D
no more flash !! it sucks with linux .. 100% CPU :(:(
ReplyDeleteuse standards: html5 and theora / x264
While I couldn't agree mor that Youtube should be based on free software and open standards, I won't create a google account just for that.
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ReplyDeletex264 is heavily patented, and charging for royalties is a direct attack of the freedom of redistribution, one of the pillar of free software.
"We've heard a lot of feedback around supporting HTML5 and are working hard to meet your request, so stay tuned. We'll be following up when we have more information. We're answering this idea now because there are so many similar HTML5 ideas and we want to give other ideas a chance to be seen." That response was from mia on the youtube team.. Seems like they have closed that request so that other non html 5 requests have a chance to be seen :D I think this deserves an update to the blog :D
ReplyDeleteOh, and if at all possible vote for my usability idea over here -> http://productideas.appspot.com/#9/e=3d60a&t=entire+screen+real-estate
ReplyDeleteFlash is a resources sucker, why use it when there are open/free technologies???
ReplyDeleteFor all the people that comment "no more flash, uses CPU a lot" ... in html 5 playing videos without flash would be even slower, because the movie will have to be rendered and then printed on the page (perhaps in a canvas object or whatever is called), to allow for overlays like subtitles, transparency and so on.
ReplyDeleteThat uses much more processor compared to flash, who just now got smart enough to use DXVA to decode videos (hardware decoding, 5% cpu usage to decode them)
Ditch Flash!
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For the flash lover who says html5 will be more resource intensive and that flash will use less resources now that it is using "DXVA" to decode videos, stick it!
ReplyDeleteFlash is one of the worst pieces of crapola to hit the web since the web's inception. It's an advertiser's dream come true after the limitations of animated gifs, it's always going to be a resource hog because of it's proprietary nature, it will continue to give the entertainment cartel control over the viewer (loud ads, ads that can't be paused at the beginning/middle/end of videos, ads that can't be fast forwarded or skipped, provide (to the entertainment cartel) incredibly detailed user info down to your zip code while you watch, difficulty in saving/"recording" what you are watching for later off-line viewing or transfer to another device, and so many other issues with it. That's why the entertainment cartel loves it so.
And let's not forget Adobe's response to security flaws in flash and acrobat formats: Paraphrasing, one of the heads of Adobe stated that they don't have (read: can't afford) a standby team of individuals to fix security problems like the latest flaw regarding javascript in acrobat (.pdf) files. The interviewee basically stated that they were working on an update to acrobat, that they didn't want to "disrupt" corporate with a security update in between release cycles for their regularly scheduled update due out in a couple of months, and that the security flaw would be addressed when the regularly scheduled update is released. The same programmers working on the regularly scheduled update are the ones who are going to fix the javacript vulnerability in pdf, so if Adobe had pulled them to work on the security flaw exclusively, then the regular update would have been delayed, and corporate would be upset because of a delayed scheduled update, combined with an out-of-cycle security update.
With html5 and open/free formats, the above issue goes away. There no longer exists the lack of a "standby" team to fix security vulnerabilities, the vulnerabilities will get fixed rapidly as is the case now for FOSS applications with community support. And if someone else doesn't fix it, I have the option of fixing it myself or hiring someone to fix it for me.
As for performance, with shrinking dies, multiple cores, and especially the recent enabling of gpus to decode video, the only thing missing is a starting basis of more than 4 GB of memory for laptops and desktops that multi-task as intensely as I ask them to multi-task.
Flash is the old, obsolete way of doing things. The world is moving to Free and Open Source software, community development and leverage, and an ecosystem far larger than any single proprietary company can compete with. Flash is the dinosaur. Time to move on.
@Anonymous (9:26AM)
ReplyDeleteAt the point when a standardized video codec is chosen for HTML5, browsers will have the option of implementing them in platform-native code, which means browsers will have the option of implementing them using platform-native acceleration features.
Whether that's using x264, Theora or some other codec, becoming part of the HTML5 *standard* means that browsers can target it, and not depend on a third-party does-everything-because-it's-a-VM plugin like Flash, Java or Silverlight.
Michael, Much better elucidated point than the rant just above yours. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteSince the US have software patents, with x264 you might have licensing issues. So ogg would be better from that point of view. I'm not a flash hater, but it's much better not to require it (like blip.tv doesn't restrict the format that much and allows you to view in several formats). Currently I can't use sound in flash, for example, and there's no way to debug it...
ReplyDeleteAlso, YT should be more an application than the current 'web page' that it is now.
What will Youtube do with people who dont have HTML 5 capable browsers? Will it automatically detect not HTML 5 and revert back to Flash?
ReplyDelete"Whether that's using x264, Theora..."
ReplyDeleteActually, the format is called Mpeg 4 avc/H.264, not x264.
x264 is just a software tool to make videos in mpeg 4 avc/H.264 format.
Unfortunately, Mpeg 4 avc/H.264 is a heavily patented format, so use of tools like x264 may be illegal in the US without paying for patents/royalities.
So I would stick to Ogg/Theora, despite it's shortcomings.
Anyway, I would like to see HTML 5 support in youtube. If you think Flash in Linux is bad, just wait and see how it performs on Vista. Everytime Vista makes a random read/write in the harddisk, the video shutters for half a second, due to the fact Flash doesn't have any buffer like VLC does. Lame!!
What about if Google open up the On2 codecs and these become the HTML5 standard, amongst the other options? Would this be a good thing? I'm thinking so ...
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Open source, royalty free, and to be VC2 standard.
Naturally I lean towards open formats where security is a collective affair. Unlike Flash where Adobe can choose when it thinks some vulnerability needs to be fixed.
ReplyDeleteThe more open the format is, the more chances that it will reach more people without any form of restriction
Just thank God Microsoft did not take on Youtube because then it would be remade in the only choice worse than Flash, Silverblight. Hurray for open standards, and Google acceptance of them.
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ReplyDeleteIt seems that HTML5 video on YouTube is already in beta testing: http://www.youtube.com/html5
ReplyDeleteSadly, Chromium (the open-source version of Google Chrome) does not support HTML5 video yet. :(
Chromium does support html5 (at least on Linux). You will, however, have to install the proprietary codec support library since YouTube sadly only serves H.264 files.
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Lets hope Google supports Theora or any other free codec soon.
The idea "Open Videos With OGG/Theora codecs and no propietary formats. Let's open the web!!!!!. Furthermore Ogg has much quality than mp4" had 3402 votes before google killed it with the response " Exciting news for HTML5 advocates -- just announced today: http://youtube-global.blogspot.com/2010/01/introducing-youtube-html5-supported.html
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They are deliberately killing ogg ideas with high votes to keep them out of the top ideas section.
Its systematic censorship if you ask me.
At the point when a standardized video codec is chosen for HTML5, browsers will have the option of implementing them in platform-native code, which means browsers will have the option of implementing them using platform-native acceleration features.
ReplyDeleteI'm all for open standards but I also want things to work now. Flash works in pretty much all the most common browsers and on the big 3 user platforms today. HTML 5 is still in the very early days and has patchy support across browsers - and from past experience will always have pretty patchy support. By which I mean every browser - especially with video - will implement something different, making it yet another nightmare for developers. At least with Flash it provides a consistent deleivery mechanism for devs - who then don't have to waste days and weeks implementing cross browser fixes.
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ReplyDeleteIt seems that HTML5 video on YouTube is already in beta testing: http://www.youtube.com/html5
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ReplyDeleteActually, the format is called Mpeg 4 avc/H.264, not x264.
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Unfortunately, Mpeg 4 avc/H.264 is a heavily patented format, so use of tools like x264 may be illegal in the US without paying for patents/royalities.
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Anyway, I would like to see HTML 5 support in youtube. If you think Flash in Linux is bad, just wait and see how egipt last minute it performs on Vista. Everytime Vista makes a random read/write in the harddisk, the video shutters for half a second, due to the fact Flash doesn't have any buffer like VLC does. Lame!!
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